“Old” Testament?


This is what the “Old Testament” is and why it precludes all sequels and new-fangled interpretive spins. The Christian-Muslim treatment of the Torah should make a postmodernist blush. The following thumbnail sketch is by Zionist Conspirator:

The TaNa”KH (“Old Testament”) is divided into three distinct sections. The first and most important is the Torah. Only the Torah was written directly by G-d Himself; Moses was only a stenographer. The Torah was originally written “974 generations” before the Creation, in “letters of black fire on a scroll of white fire.” It is what chrstians call the “logos.” The entire creation is derivative of the Torah.

The Nevi’im (Prophets) are a step lower than the Torah. They were not written by G-d Himself. They were written by the Prophets in their own words under the spirit of nevu’ah (prophecy). They are not higher than the Torah, nor do they amend it in any way. If any prophet had ever prophesied that one day the Torah would be “fulfilled” and replaced by something else, he would have been put to death as a false prophet; and certainly his “prophecy” would not have been canonized by the ‘Anshei-HaKeneset HaGedolah. Furthermore, many prophecies are conditional; ie, they may be mitigated. One example is the prophecy of Jonah. Jonah declared that Nineveh would be destroyed. He didn’t say “unless you repent;” he said it would be destroyed. But the people repented (at least to a certain extent) and HaShem granted them a reprieve.

On the first Shavu`ot G-d spoke directly to perhaps some three million people. This had never happened before and has never happened since. Until it does, this is the Supreme Revelation that judges all others. The Prophets must be interpreted in light of the Torah. Any interpretation of the Prophets that is contrary to Torah is a false interpretation. Period.

The Ketuvim (Writings or Hagiographa) is a step lower than the Prophets. It was not written under the spirit of prophecy but under ruach haqodesh (Divine inspiration of “holy spirit”). The prophecies in the Ketuvim are even more conditional than those in the Nevi’im.

In addition to all this, the Nevi’im and Ketuvim are only in the Bible “temporarily.” Only the Torah is eternal. The books of the Na”Kh were put there by the ‘Anshei-HaKeneset HaGedolah (the Men of the Great Assembly) until Mashiach would come. They are still there because he hasn’t. When he does, only the Torah (and the Scroll of Esther) will still be read publicly as Scripture (though this doesn’t mean we will lose the others, G-d forbid).

The Torah (from which the Prophets and Writings derive all their authority) warns over and over and over not to deviate from it one iota to the left or to the right. Horrible punishments are prophesied for failing to keep it, and these prophecies have been fulfilled. Not once does the Torah warn about the consequences of “rejecting the messiah.” Not once. All punishments are for deviating from the Torah. Parashat Ki-Tavo’ (Deuteronomy 26:1-29:8) contains a long portion of warnings precisely about the current Exile. The consequences of deviating from the Torah are blood-curdling. And you want Jews to replace the Torah with something else? Something “new?”

The chrstian claim that the Torah is “kept” by violating it and “violated” by keeping it is one of the most oxymoronic and counterintuitive teachings in the religious world. There isn’t even a mitzvah (commandment) to “accept the messiah!” Because when he comes it will be obvious; no “faith” will be required. (I also recommend that you read Deuteronomy 13, which many authorities claim is a specific prophecy/warning about the coming of chrstianity.)


You don’t believe in chrstianity because of any “messianic prophecy” in the TaNa”KH. You believe in it because your bible contains a “new testament,” which you accept implicitly. The “new testament” says that the TaNa”KH is full of prophecies about J*sus, and since you accept its authority from the outset, you then proceed to find them everywhere. If you didn’t already believe in the authority of the NT, you wouldn’t interpret the TaNa”KH in accordance with its interpretation.


From the same thread:

First of all, I’m not Jewish, so the Torah in its fullness doesn’t apply to me. It applies to Jews alone. I (and you and every other non-Jew) am bound by the Noachide Laws.

Second of all, the Perushim (the “Pharisees“) were Torah True Jews (the Tzadduqim were not). Chrstianity’s attack on them and on their faithfulness to the Divine commandments has come back to bite it in the form of radical antinomian leftists who now refer to conservatives as “Pharisees.”

Third, once again you aren’t listening. The Torah is the Ultimate and Authoritative Revelation. The “new testament” does not have the authority to pop up and interpret it unless the Torah plainly says it does. It does not, as you well know. I have posted in detail on the authority of the Torah over all other Divine revelation or claimants of Divine revelation, and you persist in quoting the “new testament” as if “anyone with one eye and half sense” could “plainly see” that it is the “continuation” of the TaNa”KH (G-d forbid!). It is only to people who have never known of a bible without it and who have never had a Hebrew Bible that stood alone, as it did for a thousand years before chrstianity existed.

Fourth, by invoking the miracles of J*sus, you engage in hypocrisy. You and I both know that if anyone were to show up, claim to found a new post-chrstian religion, and then “prove” it by miracles that every chrstian in the world would label such miracles “the work of Satan.” Furthermore, I just in my last post asked you to read Deuteronomy 13 which plainly states that some miracles are a test from G-d to see if Israel will remain loyal to the Torah. I respect your sincerity, but your completely ignoring that to make the miracles argument really doesn’t speak very well of you.

Fifth, you continue to argue against Torah (and Noachide) observance from chrstian assumptions which are not true if chrstianity itself is not true. I may be wrong here, but your argument seems to be the old “you obviously think you can be perfect and sinless because you know good and well that no one who isn’t perfect and sinless must be eternally damned unless J*sus were to die in his place.” The Torah never demands an impossible perfection. It contains laws, principles, and teachings on repentance for sin. Furthermore, your belief that G-d must damn everyone not as holy as He Himself is (and it is inherently impossible for anything to be as holy as G-d) is a chrstian (especially Protestant) way of painting oneself into a corner so that chrstianity simply “has” to be true. The Jewish teachings on the afterlife are more esoteric than in chrstianity (the exoteric teachings are about laws and observance). You are imposing the eschatology of the “new testament” onto the Hebrew Bible. I don’t suppose you would ever take a moment to consider that to argue with me you can’t simply spout chrstian teachings as if they were self-evidently true?


The Quotable Zionist Conspirator